Entrepreneur Portrait: Thomas DeGeest, Wafels and Dinges

Thomas DeGeest, formerly an IBM consultant, came to the US from Belgium in 1997. Since then, he has abandoned corporate culture and, in 2007, re-invented the waffle scene in NYC with his bright yellow “Wafels and Dinges” food trucks. This summer, he took an even bigger step by opening a permanent location on Avenue B which is already highly successful.  DeGeest became quite the local celebrity, having been featured on CBS and in Gourmet Magazine, and has caused quite a stir with his big win on Throwdown! with Bobby Flay – a popular show on Food Network. He is also the winner of the 2009 Vendy Award for best dessert. New York International had the privilege of having breakfast with this international entrepreneur at his new venue. New York International: What inspired you to start selling waffles? When did you have that “Aha!” moment where you knew this is what you wanted to do? Thomas DeGeest: The ideal view of the entrepreneur is that he has a grand vision of a beautiful business. One day, he wakes up and says, “this is what I’m going to do.” But, this isn’t how it really happens. There’s a lot that leads up to it.I did have a good job at IBM, but my wife and I started to dabble in the entrepreneurial scene. We tested selling the waffles at a couple of street fairs with friends, then we started working with an architect friend to design the store we originally wanted to open. However, in 2006, I heard of a food truck for sale and we decided to start from there.The vision of what the company could become came as we started to dip our toes into the market. The market, as well as our customers, told us if we were on the right track or not. That’s how your identity develops, by the feedback you get, and you pick and choose elements from that and say, “this is who we really are.” You just have to keep your eyes and ears open.NYIntl: Does it take a lot of training for your employees to master the waffle?DeGeest: Yes, it does. That’s the reason why we’re not going to franchise necessarily. We don’t want to dumb it down. It’s about craftsmanship, it’s not like flipping burgers. It’s about understanding and feeling the product and the equipment. Take a look at our waffle irons, they’re cast-iron and really heavy, there’s no non-stick there. It takes new employees about 3-6 months to really become good at the craft.NYIntl: Is it true that you use irons only made in Belgium?DeGeest: Yes, you really can’t find good waffle irons in the US for making our kind of waffles. The heaviest American waffle iron is too light, Belgian waffle irons are three-times as heavy.It really goes beyond the product, though. The key to making it right is not just about knowing how to make the product, but about knowing how to talk about it. Like, why is this waffle dense? And why is the other one light and crispy? They’ve also got to understand the history behind the waffle.NYIntl: So you started with the trucks, and then you moved to the venue. But you mentioned that you’re trying hard not to turn into a chain. Are you afraid that if you open up new Wafels and Dinges shops you’ll run the risk of becoming “Americanized” in the future?That’s tricky. It’s very hard not to want to grow, but it’s not only a concern for loss of quality, but for loss of culture. Right now the people we hire have very strong can-do attitudes. They’re not people who just show up for their 9-5 hours and to get their $7.25 minimum wage. We actually pay our employees way above industry average. In fact, we pay them salary and sales commission, which is something that very few food businesses do.It’s inevitable. If you grow, there’s always the risk that you lose quality in your product and culture. But there are a few cases that have done it right like “In and Out Burger” in California, they’ve really managed to grow steadily. So it’s possible, but you can’t grow too fast. I don’t want to grow too fast, I have no reason to.NYIntl: You said once that you learn from the places you go to. I heard you spent time in the south of the US for a little while. Can you tell me more?Yes, you learn from the different states. When I started working for IBM, my first consulting gigs were in Detroit. I spent my winter there, where I ate a lot of Polish food. Then I spent my summer in New Orleans and Baton Rouge. It was a total eye opener. Coming straight out of Belgium where the cuisine is very traditional, almost conservative, seeing all those crazy kitchen dishes like crawfish and blackened cod really influenced me.

"The original idea was to replicate in New York what we do in Belgium"

The original idea was to replicate in New York what we do in Belgium. In Belgium, we do dessert waffles like the one you’re eating right now. It’s sweet, uncomplicated, and with very few toppings. But as I started getting exposed to other kitchens, I became more open. For instance, now we have the barbecue pulled pork slider. You would never see that in Belgium! We’re always thinking about how we can make dishes that fit our brand, but still manage to stand out.NYIntl: So how important is innovation for you?DeGeest: In the waffle world, we’re probably one of the more innovative companies out there. When we innovate, we try to have winners all the time. We don’t serve a dish unless it’s phenomenal.  Every savory waffle is an American and Belgian mix.NYIntl: Is anyone else in your family from the culinary tradition?DeGeest: No, just me. I come from a very academic family. I was an engineer, with not a whole lot of entrepreneurs in the family. But I certainly hope that my kids will follow in my footsteps and be happy with whatever they choose to do.NYIntl: Was this the ideal location for you to open up the venue?No, not necessarily. But being close to your creation and seeing what you’ve made is great. As entrepreneurs, we have to keep tweaking. The thing that I’ve discovered through entrepreneurship is that any human being has the ability to create an impact.Another beautiful thing about being an entrepreneur is that it’s a creative process. You have a whole lot of entrepreneurs who buy a franchise, but that’s not creative in my opinion. What we’ve done is put something on the map in New York that didn’t exist before, and hopefully will gain a place in people’s memories.Customers don’t visit Wafels and Dinges because they’re hungry. They come in because it’s an exciting and special moment in their lives. To be part of that is huge.